482 timestamped passages. Every timestamp is a permanent link to this place in the recording.

00:00:00

Let's say the serenity prayer, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

00:00:16

courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Thank you. I give you our good friend, Don Pee.

00:00:38

Never mind. My name is Don and I'm an alcoholic. And I'm a recovered alcoholic. I do not know any of the symptoms of alcoholism.

00:01:06

The main one of course being the physicalologist's alcohol that causes me to one another drinker since I take one.

00:01:16

Well I don't drink so I don't worry about that one.

00:01:21

The man is the mantle of the session that causes me to take that drink where I want to or not. And God has been very kind to me.

00:01:30

I don't see alcohol. It has to be drawn to my attention, which makes me extremely vulnerable.

00:01:42

Maybe if I talk this way or be better, indulge me please. I'm working on part of the problem.

00:01:52

I did not know I was an alcoholic when I got here. I was certified by one government agency as a sociopath type 2.

00:02:16

I'm still not sure what it is, but I can tell you it ain't good.

00:02:20

My federal parole officer said I was a psychopath. The medical people said I was a manic depressive drug addict.

00:02:34

I was hiding my alcoholism behind some real drama man. You can get by it too, maybe even three of them, but not all of them.

00:02:44

My favorite was not a depressive. And please understand, that's a very real condition my son had.

00:02:52

For me, it was the game. I learned real early on that if you want people to stay away from you, throw a mood swinger to you.

00:03:07

It works every time. You have to get really good at it, because if you do it too often, you'll lock your way and try to fix it.

00:03:20

And you've got a whole new game to deal with. If you don't do it well enough, I invite you to parties to the stand up comic.

00:03:32

That's what I'm trying to avoid anyway.

00:03:35

God Jesus is what's at hand always. He will not mess my life up to make yours better. Get over it.

00:03:48

But he is what's at hand and why I came to the end of my road Christmas 9, 1967.

00:03:57

The end of the road was very simple. It's been a week during the most thorough inventory I've ever done in my life.

00:04:10

Many of you was honest. I looked at who I was and realized I had become completely useless.

00:04:19

A great place to be. It doesn't feel good. And if you're in AA so you can feel better, go somewhere else.

00:04:36

Really? But what it did was bring me to that point of total surrender.

00:04:51

As long as I can be useful, I can stay here. When I become useless, I gotta go.

00:04:59

I had two little boys that had been on the road with me. A little emotional part of me.

00:05:14

For four and a half years, they went through the different arrests. They went through everything with me.

00:05:25

And they'd have been better off in a foster home than I knew it.

00:05:31

The upshot was that I took a two month supply of methamphetamine, hydrochloride, good stuff, right out of the drugstore.

00:05:47

And shut up my arm, drank everything in the house and we don't die. What a bitch it was in the morning.

00:05:59

I woke up and what I woke up to was a simple thing. I'm a complete failure at living and a complete failure at dying.

00:06:24

What a bitch. The body won't quit and the mind won't work. And the police are at the door.

00:06:32

Now there's your first clue that I ain't dead.

00:06:36

Well, they don't need them in either of the places I was taught you gonna go.

00:06:49

And I couldn't have verbalized it then, but the attitude was very simple. My being was.

00:06:55

I wanted to go anywhere anyone says. Do anything anyone says, if I don't have to be him anymore.

00:07:10

And I haven't been. I came to a fully awake. No idea what to do with it. Just fully awake.

00:07:21

Now I get most of my lessons from my grandchildren. And I was thinking the other day, my little granddaughter, Gianna.

00:07:34

When the babies are restless, they give them to me. Because I know what to do with babies.

00:07:40

They're laying on your chest and hum. A pretty single sleep. For God's sake, don't yell at them.

00:07:52

Can you imagine that? Trying baby and yell at them to shut them up.

00:07:57

Somebody had a hitch in the head with a stick. But she was, I hung her on to sleep.

00:08:08

And was looking at her and I thought, you know this was, it would be, I can't imagine.

00:08:20

Coming back into the room, waking that baby up and then leaving the room. What a terrible thing.

00:08:29

So, because God uses whatever's at hand. Oh, I'm sorry.

00:08:45

Flaunt me to the moon. They had nine charges on me and the first one called for three years of life in the penitentiary.

00:09:00

I've been in three of them, which doesn't mean anything. Because that's not to deal.

00:09:08

Better? Well, you missed all the good stuff. Sorry.

00:09:15

We plea bargained that one. They took me in a room of my attorney and the federal people.

00:09:30

Because I still owe them five years and they were kind of anxious to have me back.

00:09:36

Instead of having a kid guilty to a reduced charge they had available.

00:09:44

So you got to have an A group two hours from here and a charge available.

00:09:50

That they would give me one and a half to three years sentence.

00:09:57

And the other option was to go back to the feds for five years.

00:10:04

And I'm not stupid. So I took the deal.

00:10:13

Now the federal officer that negotiated this changed his mind at the last minute.

00:10:22

He'd been in touch with the hospital. And on paper I'm untreatable.

00:10:31

Sociopath doesn't know the difference between right and long. How are you going to help them?

00:10:36

They're a psychopath. A sociopath does. They just don't give a damn.

00:10:41

And I'm both. So they said just lock him up so he didn't hurt anybody else.

00:10:48

And so he did the deal for me. I was really worried about my Social Security

00:10:57

because what they did was let me plead to guilty on charge on the only one in the state

00:11:05

that never pled that way. Which I find interesting.

00:11:12

And I thought I was going to Texas where they could fix what was wrong with me.

00:11:20

So in five days I'm supposed to be in federal hospital in forward Texas.

00:11:30

Getting fixed. The federal man at the last minute changed his mind.

00:11:37

Said we can't do anything for this one. Just lock him up.

00:11:41

So I was taking five days later to the fish tank in Colorado State Penitentiary.

00:11:47

Great place. Built in 1894. Made out of rock quarries from the great place.

00:11:54

Fish tank you don't know. That's where they spend four to six weeks

00:11:59

teaching you how to live in this community. Because you don't learn that quick.

00:12:04

You're in trouble. They thump in bumpy and decide we're going to put you to work and all that.

00:12:12

In our third week three convicts came over to talk to us.

00:12:21

I knew they were convicts because they had green clothes with numbers on them.

00:12:26

Ugly. Except for Bruce. Bruce is kind of cute. He really was.

00:12:36

But no crusty old bastard named Doc got to put in first. And he said this.

00:12:45

My name is Doc and I am an alcoholic.

00:12:48

And that means that I'm a policy over alcohol and drugs and guards and all of the other circumstances of my life.

00:12:56

And if any of you smart bastards think you can still manage your lives,

00:13:00

look to the award the state just gave you for the nifty job you've been doing.

00:13:05

Well we'll do the argue with you.

00:13:08

You said your very best thinking got you the penitentiary. You're not doing too good are you?

00:13:13

Well no. Then he gave the promise we can show you a new way of thinking.

00:13:28

We can show you how to learn to live a life that will make sense to you.

00:13:33

My life had never made sense to anybody because it's trying to make sense to you.

00:13:41

And one quick look you say I don't make sense.

00:13:44

From the time those little people would come to me and say why did you do that?

00:13:52

And early on I told them the truth not very long but I told them I don't know.

00:13:57

They said well you must know you did it.

00:14:01

They told us a number of things that day.

00:14:09

The main one was they invited us to what they called a 12 step study school.

00:14:18

You were not allowed to attend the A meeting till you completed the step work.

00:14:26

They brought real people in from the outside.

00:14:30

And my sole partner and I Jim didn't have a hell of a lot to do anyway.

00:14:43

And Jim was one of those guys that one of the first emotions that returned to me was compassion.

00:14:51

I didn't know what it was but I knew that I knew why I was there.

00:15:01

He had done what you know I've all been terrified of.

00:15:04

In a car drunk in a blackout he killed people.

00:15:14

I'd been to NA in the federal penitentiary didn't hurt a damn thing because I'm not a drug addict.

00:15:27

When treatment came out with that drug of choice that's mine.

00:15:32

The drug I don't have any choice over at all is alcohol.

00:15:37

So I'm very blessed because when I got here the entire focus of the A was recovery from alcoholism.

00:15:47

Which if you think about it brings about sobriety all by itself.

00:15:52

Unfortunately I'm a little concerned about A today.

00:15:58

The focus is shifting to sobriety.

00:16:06

We're told at the very beginning that's something we can't do.

00:16:09

So I spend any time with techniques and styles and charts and graphs and questionnaires and that help us.

00:16:26

But I was spiritually awake which meant I began to see things spiritually.

00:16:33

One of the mistakes I had made most of my life is that I thought

00:16:37

I was a human being trying to have a spiritual experience.

00:16:54

I'm not gonna outlive it anyway.

00:17:02

But I was the three guys that were working with it.

00:17:10

Completely different personalities.

00:17:14

But the message was identical.

00:17:17

Bruce was doing a naturalized sentence for a double murder he'd committed in a shootout downtown Denver.

00:17:30

The man telling me the story could not do that.

00:17:40

I've been taught to ask questions.

00:17:48

And the only reason I stayed in the AA was to be changed.

00:17:51

I didn't know I needed to be sober.

00:17:53

I was five and a half months sober when I got here.

00:17:56

How much more sober am I gonna get?

00:18:03

I didn't care who changed me.

00:18:11

I smuggled some stuff across the border to using my kids.

00:18:22

And the guy had hired me for the job, turned us all in.

00:18:27

And when you play with snakes, you get bit.

00:18:30

That was so reprehensible what I did.

00:18:42

Now I understand the kids now are on the road for four and a half years.

00:18:52

And everybody has an ace in the hole.

00:18:56

Mother, father, aunt, uncle, friend.

00:18:58

Crashed out my cocks for a few days.

00:19:04

And then my dad was an ace in the hole.

00:19:08

He had a carriage house and the kids and I lived at it.

00:19:11

And I just come off a hard road trip.

00:19:17

And we were sitting there and I decided it's time for me to put my life back together.

00:19:20

Because all I've ever wanted to be was a good father and a good son.

00:19:24

So busy putting my life back together.

00:19:29

And Albert called from Albuquerque.

00:19:38

We got 30 kilos of really good graphs as far as it were as.

00:19:43

And our driver got arrested on a traffic charge.

00:19:49

We need somebody to bring it across.

00:19:54

Well, I'm trying to get my life together.

00:20:05

At that time it was $200 a key.

00:20:14

I was the only one in the entire United States.

00:20:20

This little cynic could think, could pull this off.

00:20:25

I'm going to go into old Mexico and rescue against.

00:20:31

I take great, I get tickled because you know who the president of Mexico is now?

00:20:44

It was finally running the show.

00:20:47

Anyway, so that piece was laying there and God used whatever it had.

00:20:58

Bruce was incapable of committing that act again.

00:21:13

Roy Nichols was a bank robber.

00:21:17

Well, not really, he was a robber.

00:21:22

But Roy's big kick was robbing supermarkets.

00:21:29

He really liked the thrill of going from station to station to station.

00:21:33

Because every minute you're in there, you're in higher danger.

00:21:37

What he really liked was when he put a gun to your head and watched your face.

00:21:45

So I began to identify with him.

00:21:51

He was not capable of doing that anymore.

00:21:54

And I asked him about it and he said, that's right, I've been changed.

00:21:59

They didn't say, hey, change me.

00:22:06

They didn't say my sponsor changed me.

00:22:09

They didn't even say the big book changed me.

00:22:14

Now, Roy is an interesting case because we, by the way, went through the 12-step study school

00:22:25

In the sixth week, I was given a new group.

00:22:28

And with my sponsor's help, it was now my turn.

00:22:32

And every now and then, Roy would get pissed at the group.

00:22:37

Did you ever get pissed at your group?

00:22:41

Just couldn't stand it anymore.

00:22:43

And he disappeared for two or three weeks.

00:22:46

And went back to sell out seven and hit out.

00:22:53

And of course when he came out, I said, what are you been doing?

00:22:57

He said, well, I was completely off-basin.

00:23:00

I've been riding inventory so I can get clear.

00:23:05

Phil Guterres, God, I don't know.

00:23:20

Obviously, he wasn't drunk all the time.

00:23:23

Phil was a very dangerous human being.

00:23:30

He came from Guam when he was 17 because they couldn't handle him anymore.

00:23:36

He had a family here, so they sent him here.

00:23:40

And a few years later, they wanted to send him back to Guam and Guam when taking,

00:23:47

so they put him in our penitentiary.

00:23:50

Because it seems the last time he got drunk he threw three people out of three-story window.

00:23:56

Now I lived in sell B-4, nine-right.

00:24:01

B-block, four-story up, nine-silled down on the right side.

00:24:09

And this is a guy who throws people out of windows.

00:24:17

And he came to me one day with a smile on his face.

00:24:22

I don't know if you've seen oil smile, but this is the captain of the pirate ship.

00:24:33

I've been here seven years and you're the first person I sponsored.

00:24:43

As you wish, Phil taught me about love.

00:24:52

It starts right there, which is rescued of penitentiary.

00:25:03

Nobody ever questioned Phil's touching his mouth.

00:25:16

I don't find the word sponsor in the big book.

00:25:19

I do find the word protege, which well-defined.

00:25:26

There's two places that define sponsorship, or it describes it without defining it.

00:25:33

If you're serious about this, it says we suggest you find somebody who can show you

00:25:57

precisely how they're recovered.

00:26:01

We call that sponsorship now, and that's good.

00:26:04

Sponsorship is so important that I don't want to demean it in any way, but it's gotten skewed.

00:26:11

Sponsorship is the act of taking someone through a proven process that will awaken them to the spirit within.

00:26:31

That's the only thing that's going to save your ass.

00:26:38

But the spirit will and does.

00:26:46

I'm asked to do the one thing I'm incapable of doing.

00:26:54

Anyway, that put me on a track of some things spiritually.

00:27:01

We're healers, we're storytellers.

00:27:08

We'd be home watching law and order.

00:27:10

I don't even know what it is, but it didn't sound nice to me.

00:27:20

I like to watch Heaven Castel.

00:27:25

So I look at the great healers.

00:27:34

My wife is a nurse in a research unit where many of her babies died, so I watched her.

00:27:55

She picked those babies up and packed them.

00:28:00

And say, you're in the right place.

00:28:02

You're going to be all right.

00:28:07

That's what we're supposed to do when the new people come in.

00:28:13

We take them by the hand, we touch them.

00:28:19

Then I looked at the great master.

00:28:21

And what was it he actually did?

00:28:27

Well, he was kind of a traveler.

00:28:31

He spent a lot of time on donkeys and dirt roads.

00:28:36

He'd come upon some guy who was crippled, blind, had running sores, and sitting by the side

00:28:51

Now this guy thought he was alone because he was crippled and blind and had running sores.

00:29:02

He was crippled and blind and had running sores because he thought he was alone.

00:29:08

So the first thing the master did was say, you cannot be alone once that happens.

00:29:15

You don't have to like it, but you're no longer alone.

00:29:19

Then in giving this, you don't have to do this anymore, you know.

00:29:31

And because he had the understanding that I am you and you are me, then he would say to

00:29:41

them, would you like to get up?

00:29:46

Not everybody wants to get up.

00:29:49

And if the man said, well, yeah.

00:29:54

He'd say, all right, I'll be real still because I'm going to give you the magic.

00:30:03

And he said it with such conviction that it was believable.

00:30:13

Believe the lies ran out the window.

00:30:18

So my task since they got to A was to be believable.

00:30:31

I know exactly what that means.

00:30:34

I know I'm completely powerless over everything, protecting this thing.

00:30:39

In fact, Janice, some night when you got nothing but law and order, there's a repeat.

00:30:45

Just tie yourself in your chair and let her run.

00:30:54

Make sure you're tied down tight.

00:31:02

So if I come and look you in the eye and tell you, you don't ever have to drink again,

00:31:08

And I can say that with certainty because I have it.

00:31:13

And I'm incapable of not drinking.

00:31:18

And if you'd like to learn how that occurs, I'll show you.

00:31:26

I'm not good as a relationship counselor.

00:31:32

Well, I've never been able to figure out how to have a successful, sick relationship.

00:31:44

We didn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about not drinking and sobriety.

00:31:52

We spent most of our time not learning new stuff but getting rid of the old stuff.

00:32:07

The only way I know what to deal with issues is create brand new issues.

00:32:26

If you come to me and ask me to just sponsor which job should I take, first one is going

00:32:33

to give you money for God's sake.

00:32:36

You're never going to be CEO of General Motors.

00:32:40

But you might make a good dishwasher, I don't know.

00:32:46

Early on, Bruce said, are you tired of getting busted?

00:32:55

Oh, probably it takes a little time to catch up down there.

00:33:18

Said, would you like some money?

00:33:33

And once you've got it, you might even think about showing up for it now, man.

00:33:41

And while you're there, you might want to do some work.

00:33:44

And at the end of a prescribed period that they decide, they'll just give you money.

00:33:50

It'll never be enough, but it will always be enough.

00:33:54

So I don't have any money problems.

00:34:20

He's getting trouble now and then.

00:34:26

When he went to the guidebook, he said, when you're screwed up, go find so many more screwed up.

00:34:37

Let's see if you can help him.

00:34:40

And sometimes the best self I can give you is to tell you how screwed up I am.

00:34:49

Then maybe we can do something.

00:34:58

My real hero and that family's Marie, she puts up with this shit.

00:35:11

One last thing that I want to turn over to my two dear friends.

00:35:18

And you taught me, absolute honesty is absolute.

00:35:28

And so when I came out, I was supposed to go back to Texas and the same parole officer changed his mind.

00:35:41

I went to the federal judge and said, he's been in AA for a year and a half.

00:35:47

Let's put him on the street and watch him for six days.

00:35:50

We'll know where he's going to beg him.

00:35:56

Now, it was a memorial day weekend.

00:35:58

I had $17 in that suit that gave you the flashing sign on the back, said, just out.

00:36:10

And after the fetch process, they turned me over to the state.

00:36:15

And this was an old, six foot six former narcotics cop.

00:36:22

I was the acquaintance of his.

00:36:26

So I'm not a drug addict, but I was a pretty good dealer.

00:36:31

It was back in the days when you gave officers acid away.

00:36:39

I'd hope nobody put it in the reservoir.

00:36:46

And his worst to me was, do you report to me every night after work, which means get a job by tomorrow or back you go.

00:36:54

Not a hell of a lot to interpret or to process.

00:37:01

So I knew I could work at Burger King out in Aurora.

00:37:06

And understand, I truly do live by the spirit, the promptings of the spirit.

00:37:18

And I'm in pretty good shape spiritually.

00:37:22

And got to the bus stop and the bus had a new sign on it.

00:37:35

But I'm away out of the jail.

00:37:44

One of the guys they did time with gave me a little notice, said, if you need to work, just go see this guy.

00:37:53

And he's only three blocks away.

00:37:55

Minute man, daily labor service.

00:38:02

General Modi said, get a job.

00:38:08

And total absolute honesty is, it's a trip.

00:38:14

You're at risk every time you do it.

00:38:16

Walked into Jack's little place of business.

00:38:22

I said, Jack, my name is John Prince.

00:38:25

And I just got out of the penitentiary.

00:38:29

I'm an alcoholic and I've also had a little drug problem.

00:38:37

He said, you're just what I've been looking for.

00:38:40

Well, in my position I'll take anything he's got.

00:38:49

So he got me on a hotel room and changed that obvious suit into some jeans.

00:39:06

We went down to the Dickson paper company.

00:39:10

Dickson said, well, we don't hire ex-cons.

00:39:14

They don't bother me, I'm not an ex-con.

00:39:17

I'm a man and I've been the president.

00:39:22

But we can't start it until tomorrow.

00:39:24

If you work on your payroll, we can start it.

00:39:27

So we went back down and Jack was one nervous.

00:39:31

He said, I've got one more opening.

00:39:33

If you want to work today, you can.

00:39:37

And this young kid with a bandage on his arm,

00:39:43

he and I went out to Abbott Laboratories.

00:39:46

Abbott makes the stuff I like the very best.

00:39:49

So I'm spending the afternoon unloading boxcars or trailers into a bandage that I work hard.

00:39:57

And made the discovery that it's gone.

00:40:06

I worked so hard they offered me a full-time job and I had enough sense to say that I don't think so.

00:40:14

So I went back to Dick's and paper the next day and unloading boxcars or paper.

00:40:25

And I checked in at York Street because that's where he told me to go.

00:40:33

It's the best reason in the world to stay sober.

00:40:39

So I was able to kind of help some of the other guys get some job.

00:40:48

A guy named Al who was about six weeks sober.

00:40:52

He and I went to work unloading boxcars.

00:40:58

This is in June of July, hot.

00:41:02

And he looked in the boxcar where I was loading stuff out and said,

00:41:08

do me a favor, climb down here and look down the tracks and tell me what you see.

00:41:14

Big, unugly, molting parrot walking toward us.

00:41:22

I said, I see an ugly parrot.

00:41:29

He said, you know we've got to catch it.

00:41:40

Because we're going to tell this story.

00:41:42

York Street, no we don't have a bird.

00:41:45

So we all got him a parrot and I had some fun.

00:41:52

A couple months later, they called me in and offered me a job on the docks working for them.

00:42:00

Apparently the higher men who have been to prison.

00:42:03

Well, that meant I had to fill out an application.

00:42:07

They want your last ten years of work history.

00:42:12

Let's see, 1966, Doug's mother.

00:42:22

You know, it's what it did for a living.

00:42:27

And they never read them anyway.

00:42:29

They just went ahead and hired me.

00:42:31

And a couple months after that, the dispatcher called me in.

00:42:41

And he had my application and he had a funny look on his face.

00:42:46

He said, did you really do that?

00:42:51

He said, did you get it across?

00:42:54

He said, well I've been thinking.

00:42:57

We have this little delivery truck that delivers paper to the print houses in downtown Denver

00:43:03

and goes out east on copaction, deliver sacks.

00:43:07

It seems to me you have the necessary skills to get things from here to there under difficult circumstances.

00:43:17

So I got that job, which set me up for being able to make a very important amendment.

00:43:28

I don't have time to talk about it, but it's very important.

00:43:47

So whatever, just be honest, tell the truth.

00:43:52

I've got to decide who the car is going to fall.

00:44:02

I'm about to run out of steam.

00:44:05

And I don't want to keep my steam in the car, so I'm going to have to do something different.

00:44:11

Knowing that I would not have the standard.

00:44:18

Knowing also that, well you're all lovely.

00:44:29

Love me and brought me here for that.

00:44:40

One out of Seattle, a lot of the Manhattan County was.

00:45:10

And one of my old mentors described that for me.

00:45:13

Love is the active concern for the welfare and the growth of that which we love.

00:45:31

So I was looking at, of course I'm looking at my life over because it's short.

00:45:42

Because of the presence of God and whatever has given me.

00:45:49

I've been able to open a lot of people up for they could love me.

00:45:53

That means they're now open to love.

00:45:57

Active concern for the welfare and the growth of that which we love.

00:46:18

So this loaned tech showed up in my life 14 years sober,

00:46:27

going struck, revving mad because you've been in an A2 law.

00:46:31

And had no clues to what that meant.

00:46:41

And I would like you to hear.