# Big Book Weekend — 3

- Archive ID: `DP-2001-STONYPOINT`
- Source: https://storiesofrecovery.org/downloads/BBA/DonPritts-JerryE-StonyPointNY~2001-P03.mp3
- Duration: 01:30:27
- Audio SHA-256: `be58d594099a71523dd1ca8273f90c3e8ffc32b900040fcaeba34ecd1bc62e99`

> Automated timestamped draft (faster-whisper base.en). Names, specialized terms, and unclear passages require human review.

## Transcript

**[00:00:03]** One thing, yeah, this is off the record, and it is off the record. My life is
**[00:00:08]** scary that there's no point in trying to keep any of it secret. I, years ago, I would
**[00:00:21]** look at some people, and I would just know that they had integrity. When I had
**[00:00:29]** absolutely none, and I could look at them, and I knew they had lots of it,
**[00:00:34]** didn't that a discomforting feeling? God almighty, that is a tough deal. You just
**[00:00:41]** know that they have it. They just have that wonderful sense of integrity. And when
**[00:00:47]** the doctor wrote his first opinion, he said, when talking about some of those
**[00:00:53]** early alcoholics, he said, I personally know scores of cases who were the type
**[00:00:58]** with whom other methods had failed completely. And he goes on to talk, but
**[00:01:04]** the most important thing, he says, you may rely absolutely on anything they say
**[00:01:09]** about themselves, rely absolutely on anything they may say about themselves.
**[00:01:14]** See, we share our truth one with another, and in the process of that, you may get
**[00:01:21]** well. I know, if you allow me to share my truth with you, I will become more
**[00:01:29]** well, or at least stay well. That's just a curious little dynamic about how this
**[00:01:33]** works. But I always wanted to be able to do that. I wanted to be able to have
**[00:01:40]** some integrity, and I thought, my God, I just don't have it. I'm not who I'd
**[00:01:49]** like to be. And this ties back into that seemingly hopeless state of mind and body,
**[00:01:56]** because what I'm talking about now is discovering some of my own truth. And one
**[00:02:02]** of the things that I had to finally discover was I do not have the power to
**[00:02:07]** be what it is I'd like to be. No matter how much I might wish to be that way, I
**[00:02:13]** don't have it. I just don't have the power. And that's part of that hopeless state of
**[00:02:18]** mind and body. I can have the festive intentions. The question that I always
**[00:02:24]** dearly love to ask in a group like this is everybody written in the backseat of a
**[00:02:29]** patrol car and handcuffs. Has anybody ever done that? Or the front seat, she says,
**[00:02:36]** great. Okay, picture that time when you were in the, and if you haven't done that,
**[00:02:46]** think of something else that you might have done, and ask yourself on the morning
**[00:02:50]** of the day when that occurred. Did you wake up and have a plan to be in the backseat
**[00:02:58]** of a patrol car with handcuffs? No, I had different plans in that. I took this step
**[00:03:07]** and then this step and then this step and I don't know what happened, but
**[00:03:10]** suddenly things were going rapidly downhill and I was trying to explain
**[00:03:15]** myself and I got nowhere. A terrible, terrible powerlessness to not be able to
**[00:03:27]** be who and what I knew that I wanted to be. I just didn't have the power. And the
**[00:03:36]** conflict that arises as a result of having the grand intentions, but not
**[00:03:45]** having the power to live up to those intentions creates more discomfort than I
**[00:03:50]** can bear. And so the alcoholic, it's been my experience, has no choice, but when you
**[00:03:59]** get into that conflict, ultimately you have to drink. If my life has lived in
**[00:04:03]** such a way that I can't stand it and I don't like the truth about who I am, then I
**[00:04:09]** have to have some kind of solution for that. And the solution was simpler to
**[00:04:14]** drink. I mean, it was just that simple. And it was absolutely necessary to take a
**[00:04:18]** drink. I mean, there's no particular drama about that. It just happens to be a
**[00:04:23]** fact. So integrity. I called my sponsor one day and I said, you know, God, I don't
**[00:04:35]** think I know anything. I mean, I've been in this process for a while and I was
**[00:04:38]** trying to do everything right and so on and so forth. And I just wasn't a bad
**[00:04:43]** spot. And I said, God, I said, I don't know anything. And he started laughing at
**[00:04:47]** me. He said, I don't know anything either. I see that's a statement of
**[00:04:56]** integrity. You think about that? But as I said here this morning with you on a
**[00:05:02]** beautiful morning in New York, I'll tell you the same thing. I don't know anything
**[00:05:05]** either. We're here together. And at this moment in time, at the second in time, I'll
**[00:05:16]** ask you a simple little question. Are you okay? Are you all right? Yeah, so am I. But
**[00:05:26]** this is similar to the experience I had the first time I took a drink. Suddenly,
**[00:05:33]** I was changed and I was all right. Whatever else had occurred in my life up
**[00:05:39]** to that point, I had been an unknown quantity for me. When I took the drink,
**[00:05:43]** boom, I was a different person. And I was okay. It was a little in a weird way.
**[00:05:50]** It was a little touch of the spirit. But I want to finish off this deal with
**[00:05:57]** integrity. Talking about integrity in it. I had a course because this has to do
**[00:06:02]** with what this is all about. Don mentioned to you, we can't stay in inventory. We
**[00:06:08]** have to get out there and be open for business. And I had an opportunity here
**[00:06:13]** at Walbach. I wanted to make a business decision. And it had to involve
**[00:06:21]** finding someone who had an uncompromising sense of integrity. And I found
**[00:06:29]** somebody in our fellowship. Happens to be a dear friend. And I knew the quality I was
**[00:06:35]** looking for was that uncompromising integrity. And that's what you can have the
**[00:06:42]** opportunity to experience in this little deal of ours. Is you can get a chance to
**[00:06:49]** experience some of the things we've always wanted to experience. The team have
**[00:06:53]** ever thought to yourself, God, I just wish I could start over. I have. I just I
**[00:06:57]** thought, God, I just wish I could start over. Just wish I could be something else.
**[00:07:01]** And this is a marvelous opportunity to experience an entire psychic change
**[00:07:07]** is starting over. That's a new mind. And then we get to grow into it. And it's a
**[00:07:12]** fantastic opportunity. And you wake up in a morning like this in New York and
**[00:07:17]** thank my God, you know, I should be in a mental institution someplace. And I'm not.
**[00:07:22]** I'm here with some fine friends and a beautiful wife. And I just this is this
**[00:07:28]** is going to be a grand experience. And I'll leave you with this little thought.
**[00:07:33]** We'll take a break with the spirit's help. We'll begin to do some exploration
**[00:07:42]** on what is your truth? What's your truth? See, my whole life, people kept telling me
**[00:07:47]** what I needed to do. And I thought I could do it. And I tried to do it and it
**[00:07:54]** didn't work. It just never did work. And finally, I was given an opportunity 13
**[00:08:01]** years sober to begin to experience the discovery of my own truth in my own way
**[00:08:08]** at my own pace. And it was a grand grand deal. And for the very first time you've
**[00:08:16]** heard the expression already once this morning, we get to live a life that makes
**[00:08:21]** sense to us. I'm living a life that makes perfect sense to me. My family
**[00:08:27]** sometimes looks at me and they're not too sure. But there's no patrol cars in
**[00:08:37]** front of the house either. And they like that. Get a chance to discover your own
**[00:08:42]** truth. And in a group like that, the spirit moves among us and that's that will be
**[00:08:48]** one of the opportunities you'll have what you do with that opportunity is your
**[00:08:52]** call. But you will have a child opportunity to discover your own truth. Let's take
**[00:08:59]** a little break. What? Well, it was clear from last night that 10 minutes is not
**[00:09:03]** enough. You also need to know that I think the most important thing that will
**[00:09:10]** occur this weekend is when you're talking with each other. And as long as
**[00:09:16]** you're willing to do that, we'll keep these microphones shut down. But since
**[00:09:21]** you also want to gather as a group, we need to truly be on time for that. So
**[00:09:27]** how about we try 20 minutes this time and then we'll adjust again next time. It's
**[00:09:31]** five minutes to 10. A quarter after I'll be sitting in this chair and you'll be
**[00:09:36]** sitting in that one ready to go. Can you hear us equally well? I'd listen to
**[00:09:47]** him more than I would may, but that's how you already are. Okay. A little bitty
**[00:10:05]** touchy history because I made a promise to remain integrity is important to me
**[00:10:14]** too. And there's some misinformation that new people get that this book hasn't
**[00:10:22]** been changed at all from the beginning. And that's not true. One of the major
**[00:10:27]** changes is a critically important change. And this is not in order to do war. It's
**[00:10:34]** simply to inform the fellowship that allowed it to happen to start with. What
**[00:10:39]** we have done to our own message. If you will turn to page one, please follow with
**[00:10:51]** me. You know, I got it. We of Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the reader will be
**[00:11:05]** interested in the medical estimate of the plan or recovery. You with me? Oh, well
**[00:11:19]** that's page one in all first edition big books. Why is that important? We
**[00:11:44]** noticed 15 or so years ago, despite our best efforts, an awful lot of
**[00:11:50]** people were going back and drinking. And we would hear a common line that went
**[00:11:58]** sort of like, well, I did what you told me I don't understand. And what they were
**[00:12:03]** being told was to read the first 164 pages of this book, which leaves out the
**[00:12:10]** doctors' attention. If you start with a second or third edition, page one is
**[00:12:16]** bill story. And when I'm new and doing what I'm told, if you tell me to read the
**[00:12:21]** first 164 pages, I will miss the foundation of recovery. And they were. So I now
**[00:12:34]** belong to a growing number of AA members who have asked, what was I when this
**[00:12:42]** happened? How did that happen? Because we've compiled a large number of bills
**[00:12:49]** writings that indicated how important he thought it was that this remained
**[00:12:53]** page one. And I'm only bringing it up because we are now discussing the
**[00:13:00]** possibility of having a fourth edition big book. What a wonderful time to restore
**[00:13:05]** the book back to its original condition. That won't happen unless we asked for
**[00:13:15]** it. This is our fellowship. And unless we ask for it, it won't happen. It won't
**[00:13:24]** start no war. There's a little skirmish around the edges will hurt. And it's not
**[00:13:32]** that important because the integrity that really comes through is I don't care
**[00:13:36]** what the page number is or what the step number is. I'm interested only in the
**[00:13:42]** result. And if I work with you, we'll clear back to the preface and we no
**[00:13:48]** longer use the circle and triangle structurally. We can still use it, you
**[00:13:53]** know. It's because of integrity that we don't. I don't know if you know that. If you
**[00:14:01]** hold a copyright or a trademark to anything and someone else uses it, you
**[00:14:05]** are required by law to either defend it in court or lose it. And we came upon that
**[00:14:12]** decision where we had to either defend the circle and triangle because there are
**[00:14:16]** 55 other organizations that use it. Either defend it in court or lose it. And
**[00:14:22]** Bill and his writings told us, don't trademark any of this. Don't copyright
**[00:14:26]** any of this stuff. You'd be in trouble if you do and we did it anyway. And the
**[00:14:31]** decision was made a very wise decision to let it go into the public domain. We're
**[00:14:39]** not going to defend it. So we stopped using it so we don't have to defend it
**[00:14:43]** structurally. The groups can still use it. And any day now it's going to go back
**[00:14:49]** into the public domain. And when it does, we can use it again because we won't
**[00:14:53]** have to defend it. Interesting spiritual principle. And you need to know that one
**[00:14:58]** of our leaders at general service knew that principle and applied it and caught
**[00:15:06]** all kinds of help for it, but stood pat. So just a little historical stuff. This
**[00:15:14]** isn't about just regular book and go to meetings. We have a fellowship here that
**[00:15:21]** is, as Bill described it, a society within a society. We're not an
**[00:15:26]** organization in a normal sense of the word. We are a society within a society.
**[00:15:33]** We are a family. We have a charge on us, not just a job to do. I am charged with
**[00:15:42]** making certain that the person that comes through that door in 50 years when
**[00:15:46]** I'm dead and gone gets the same shot I got. Big charge. Because I know there are
**[00:15:54]** better ways of doing this. I've tried some of them. They didn't work but they
**[00:16:03]** were better. I've got some things I know are going to make this work better. I
**[00:16:14]** just promise you I'll never tell you about it. So we have before us in this book
**[00:16:23]** more than just a book. We have a report by some people who overcame a seemingly
**[00:16:30]** hopeless state of mind and body. A report to us about not only that they did that
**[00:16:37]** but how they did that precisely and who to get a hold of if you would like to do that.
**[00:16:45]** Big book doesn't answer sponsorship except in one place. It tells me how to be one and
**[00:16:55]** the whole book tells me how to be a sponsor. It doesn't tell me how to find one.
**[00:16:59]** But there's one place it tells me exactly how to find one too. To show others
**[00:17:05]** precisely how we're recovered that's a main job. So if I want to be a sponsor I should
**[00:17:13]** be properly on the facts about myself be recovered or even in recovery that's fine.
**[00:17:21]** But I can show you precisely what I'm doing at this point and what I did to this point.
**[00:17:26]** It got me to this point if that's what you would like.
**[00:17:31]** And if I'm new and I'm looking for a sponsor by someone who can show me precisely what they did
**[00:17:38]** I'm theoryed out. I better be able to go sit down in my private place and do exactly what you said
**[00:17:49]** and I better if I get the results you said I'm going to get or I won't be back to see you.
**[00:17:54]** That's the truth my life's on the line and I've had that incredible experience of doing precisely
**[00:18:03]** what they said precisely the way they said it and every time got the result and then I took it
**[00:18:11]** out and tested it on some other folks damn same result and they took it out and tested it on some
**[00:18:20]** others same result you new folks I can't tell you the joy that comes from meeting somebody
**[00:18:32]** eight nine ten generations down or out I don't like down but you've never met and you have to get
**[00:18:46]** the same results because it came through you from somebody eight nine ten generations back that
**[00:18:52]** away it's a clear line but I can't tell you the aggravation that comes when you meet somebody
**[00:19:01]** two generations down it has a new improved way of doing what you showed somebody else how to do
**[00:19:06]** they showed them how to do it my mother told me if you can't say something nice don't say it
**[00:19:25]** also I will move on so just a little history of the book when we say read the book we really
**[00:19:37]** need to know which book what are we telling them to do and since that's open during
**[00:19:45]** interpretation it's just much easier for me to say once you come by my house and I'll read to you
**[00:19:52]** from my book and my book's going to be a little different in content than yours depending on which
**[00:19:59]** one I pull off the shelf and I like this one this is my original big book it just falls open where
**[00:20:07]** it needs to it knows more than I do and so I keep it and when I'm through with it just
**[00:20:17]** trash it because you're not much left of it anyway but mine's a second edition and if you've
**[00:20:23]** got a third edition there are going to be some early things that will be different and we need to
**[00:20:27]** read both of them so you can see the little changes that are taking place in the organization
**[00:20:32]** you're about to be asked to join if you join this organization you don't get to go just go to
**[00:20:38]** meetings like you want at the else you don't have any dues or fees so you can't buy you to win
**[00:20:48]** we'll take you money but we'll trust you my old Denver young people's group used to pass the
**[00:20:58]** basket and say if you have some put it in if you don't take it out we quit that and we saw the pot
**[00:21:07]** build over here on that side of the table it just dwindled no if I belong to this organization
**[00:21:17]** I am charged with the task and responsibly taking on people who are dying and going insane
**[00:21:29]** and will without some kind of intervention on my part not that I'm smart but I do have
**[00:21:37]** something to offer for people who suffer from alcoholism and are dying and going insane
**[00:21:41]** and I must do that I don't have any choice if you really belong to a unit and it isn't because
**[00:21:49]** we tell you that it's an inner imperative I was left with I woke up spiritually got struck by the
**[00:21:57]** spirit and you can't shut up when uh uh you can't
**[00:22:07]** riding on a bus better be careful who you're talking to if you're talking to me within a
**[00:22:12]** couple minutes we're gonna be talking about alcoholism and god and blah blah blah so I have
**[00:22:17]** to quit riding buses and get self-suffering ride a car you can't stop I am charged with
**[00:22:25]** the responsibility of making sure there are places my compliments to reckon the guys who
**[00:22:31]** this incredible place they met the task it gave us a place to meet but you know we'd meet anyway
**[00:22:40]** because it's an inner imperative the building had been locked we'd have found that tent over
**[00:22:44]** there's nobody in it we made it happen my group one night we were irresponsible young people
**[00:22:55]** only trusted one person with a key and they didn't show up for the name
**[00:23:00]** so we went to the park we had a meeting anyway you can't stop us when we're together we're going
**[00:23:06]** to talk don't even try we also had a group conscious and had everybody in the group got a key
**[00:23:15]** which created its own problems framework I'm just talking about framework you point how you see
**[00:23:26]** this deal the doctor's opinion is that important because without it I would not be here
**[00:23:35]** I did not know I was alcoholic could not identify with being an alcoholic until we got in there wasn't
**[00:23:46]** the amount I drank we got down to what happens when you do drink I was my first federal penitentiary
**[00:23:54]** when I was 19 years old because of alcoholism and I didn't know that until the doctor's opinion
**[00:24:02]** it made it clear doctor said he'd been working with men who had been working on a business deal
**[00:24:08]** or proposition that would be settled favorably to them on a certain date I had a drink a day or two
**[00:24:14]** before and I missed their appointment I was given a 24 hour liberty and came back in 23 days
**[00:24:21]** I missed my appointment same deal and why did that happen there was no reason it happened
**[00:24:30]** I wanted to go with that ship to the war zone that 19 war on a destroyer is fun
**[00:24:41]** you get to cuss and spit and chew and talk ugly and dirty and fight throw your weight around
**[00:24:49]** and pretend you're big boys you're on a on a machine it was designed by geniuses to be run
**[00:24:57]** by idiots
**[00:25:06]** scarcity the open ocean is still one of my favorite places because I can hear the planet
**[00:25:12]** breathe on the ocean at night you can watch the fluorescence in the waters it turns it's just an
**[00:25:19]** experience I wanted to go there's no reason for me to not go except I had a drink of alcohol in
**[00:25:25]** Long Beach California at the beginning of a proposed 24 hour period and I had to drink
**[00:25:33]** 23 days couldn't go back under any any threat at all wouldn't have gotten me back
**[00:25:41]** on day 23 the madness was gone it wasn't there anymore it had run its course when I turned myself
**[00:25:48]** in knowing full will I'm going to prison over this one didn't matter I was saying again
**[00:25:56]** I identify with the doctors opinion with the phenomenon of craving and when I'm working with
**[00:26:02]** new people thank god that psychiatrist helped me with that too that doesn't mean
**[00:26:09]** it simply means I've had a drink alcohol now that is the most important thing in my life is to
**[00:26:14]** have another drink of alcohol and I'll be a fine father and worker and everything as long as you
**[00:26:20]** understand that I'm going to have a drink yes I will come to the kids ball game let me get my
**[00:26:28]** six pack that really it's that important if I can't have that I'm sorry I can't go got to have
**[00:26:39]** that drink I've got that there's no treatment for it thank god I can quit battling it I've just
**[00:26:49]** got it it's over you can't stop me I can't stop me good and once it runs its course then we run
**[00:27:00]** into what's really wrong with me what I did between when it started and when it stopped when I look
**[00:27:07]** at that I think my god I've done things that are contrary to who I am I am so ashamed this is not
**[00:27:18]** me why did I do that how can I behave like that I don't want to ever do that again and that's a
**[00:27:28]** natural and good response and regular people have that response they don't want to do that again
**[00:27:35]** but somewhere down the way something in my mind that I still don't comprehend except it is
**[00:27:41]** selfishness and it needs the insane idea I'm supposed to feel good all the time kicks in and says
**[00:27:50]** have a drink sometimes it's when I feel bad and I want to feel good
**[00:27:57]** sometimes it's when I feel good and when I feel bad sometimes when I'm not feeling at all
**[00:28:05]** sometimes when I'm feeling too much I drink to be taller to be shorter to be noticed to be
**[00:28:13]** invisible those are all valid reasons for drinking the real reason I drink there's no reason at all
**[00:28:21]** something comes up some dances I'll have one or in this later stages I don't even think of that
**[00:28:31]** I just go do it thank god Doc Silkworth made it that clear if I do that I will have another
**[00:28:44]** and another and I'll drink until it ends maybe a week maybe overnight that psychiatrist got it
**[00:28:53]** finally when we were able to talk about the fact that you have one on Monday doesn't mean you go
**[00:29:00]** start craving mad Jim the car salesman didn't the experiment was so successful whatever
**[00:29:08]** immediate distress he felt was gone just like that it was that successful so he had another it may
**[00:29:20]** be Friday before you have that second one you'll have it if you're alcoholic and then pretty soon
**[00:29:27]** I find myself struck drunk talking to Tony who was headed from Iowa to Denver and ended up in
**[00:29:38]** jail in Indiana sounds reasonable to me because somewhere in Arizona had a drink well that's easy
**[00:29:49]** to identify with him I was headed here I had a drink and ended up here my sponsor said that he lived
**[00:30:03]** with that feeling about 86 percent the first time he had a drink a hundred percent gorgeous
**[00:30:17]** so I went back and he did it again he worked from 86 and the one drink that got into a hundred
**[00:30:22]** only got into 92 so he had another that got into 98 he had another and he was 102 ever never quite
**[00:30:35]** captain and once the start I'm bound to go beyond where I wanted to go just the nature of it
**[00:30:44]** sponsored one kid we had trouble with it because he said we were talking about it this is all a
**[00:30:52]** matter of mine he said I just went into half two then I just changed my mind that's how we finally
**[00:31:08]** got it he finally heard what he was really saying I had a drink and my mind got changed that's what
**[00:31:20]** will happen to me too more better I don't have a drink except I don't have the power to say no to
**[00:31:28]** that if I have this drink it will be a devastating event I'm gonna have it anyway
**[00:31:39]** sometimes I convinced myself it won't be the same and it won't it'll be worse sometimes I'll do
**[00:31:50]** it deliberately out of rage and anger you think he I was destroyed things last time watch this
**[00:31:57]** one I'm too much of a coward to just break up the furniture which any decent human being I gotta
**[00:32:08]** break up the furniture and then puke on the pile anyway just little ins and outs of them there
**[00:32:18]** and working with others I hear it all and the wonder thing is that I've thought it all and so I can
**[00:32:25]** I can recognize it and I know a truth if you're alcoholic you don't have any choice
**[00:32:33]** so when I carry that into my fellowshiping what does that mean when you come back from having
**[00:32:38]** drunk again I'm not one of the stupid people that says oh if he didn't want her to stay sober
**[00:32:43]** more than he wanted a drink he wouldn't have had that drink I know better than that she didn't have
**[00:32:48]** any choice and it doesn't matter how much you want to the time comes in the life of every
**[00:32:54]** alcoholic we're told when the greatest desire to stop drinking is an absolutely no avail and that
**[00:33:01]** came for me and it has not come back I still don't have that power so when somebody drinks
**[00:33:09]** that's what I expect first that little girl had just had a one-year birthday yesterday that's
**[00:33:26]** absolutely phenomenal I've had 32 of those years there's no there's nothing phenomenal in that
**[00:33:35]** you expect that now that's true anybody over five or ten it's expected they will stay sober
**[00:33:44]** nobody ever believed she'd make a year why should we that's what's remarkable
**[00:33:51]** with any alcoholics today sober even a day but particularly a year so my goodness and my
**[00:33:57]** impressed with you I don't let that go to your head it's by some form of grace neither you or I
**[00:34:12]** understand what that happened okay enough of my bad would you pick it up I love it you know what
**[00:34:24]** one of the one of the disadvantages of doing something like this with the person like Don
**[00:34:45]** as you it doesn't take much to get engrossed in his insanity about the time I'm sitting on the
**[00:34:56]** edge of my seat he says do you want to take it now Jerry no I don't I want to listen for some more
**[00:35:09]** Don mentioned to you about not knowing that he was alcoholic when he got here and there are
**[00:35:16]** others of us who get here and we're not terribly clear on just what alcoholism is number one
**[00:35:29]** or even worse we are led to believe we might be alcoholic and something else because we possess
**[00:35:40]** some symptoms that look strikingly similar to some other problems out there and one of the great
**[00:35:50]** gifts that was given to me was that 10 years ago when I was 13 years sober I am a slow learner
**[00:36:00]** well I thought that step two said something about the pain to believe a power greater
**[00:36:04]** yourself could restore your sanity and I thought when I quit drinking I was restored to sanity I
**[00:36:09]** didn't realize that the alcoholic mind was just a predisposition to drinking
**[00:36:17]** so the insanity was already there and so 13 years sober the best option that I could come up with
**[00:36:30]** was to I was on the 32nd floor of the embassy suites hotel in downtown Denver and I thought
**[00:36:37]** you know if I can find one of these windows that would open I think I'll just jump and that's not
**[00:36:44]** meant to be dramatic it really isn't it's just I'm telling it to you as factually as I know how
**[00:36:49]** to tell it to you but 13 years sober that looks like the best thing to do and then it came to me
**[00:36:56]** that's not a real good solution because I just intuitively I have a sense that I'll come to
**[00:37:06]** somewhere else and what I want is oblivion and that's where the disease of alcoholism untreated
**[00:37:19]** will carry you to it's not that I don't want to be here it's that I don't want to be here
**[00:37:24]** anywhere else either so unless I can experience an entire psychic change there's little hope that
**[00:37:35]** I'm ever going to recover now sadly I was told early on that I just needed to get a relationship
**[00:37:45]** with God now listening to quietness of my own mind I know that I'm not entitled to a relationship
**[00:37:53]** with God I haven't lived the right kind of life that's where my mind has me when I get here
**[00:38:01]** how is a fellow like me who has done all the things that I have done how am I going to get
**[00:38:09]** a relationship with God can't be done and way down deep inside I know that because see I understand
**[00:38:17]** something very clearly and there is truth to what I'm going to share with you I am fatally flawed
**[00:38:26]** or another way of putting it I am a born loser
**[00:38:30]** God that's hard to chew up and swallow but it just happens to be true didn't some of us are parents
**[00:38:39]** here I intended to be a good parent I was going to be a good father and I was going to be a good
**[00:38:46]** husband most importantly I was going to be a good son for my mother I'm the oldest of four boys
**[00:38:54]** the oldest boy is supposed to set an example aren't we I have three younger brothers none of
**[00:39:01]** whom are alcoholic all three have experienced at different times in their life to accept
**[00:39:12]** they have all drunk one time and just got in terrible condition for them
**[00:39:20]** one of them parked his car up on a curb in Boston
**[00:39:25]** the police officer came to his room in the middle of the night and said son is that your car out
**[00:39:29]** there up on the curb and he said yeah the police officer said well would you please go move it
**[00:39:34]** my brother got up went down and moved it and I said well what did you do after that
**[00:39:40]** and he said well I said I thought I'm never going to do this again and I said well and then
**[00:39:44]** then what and he looked at me he's a very strange man said well I've never done that again
**[00:39:56]** I called one brother one time I and you know I was in a deep philosophical frame of mind and I
**[00:40:01]** said you know Nick how do you feel about being at work today he said what that's well how you feel
**[00:40:10]** about being at work today he said I don't even stop to think about it he said how I feel about
**[00:40:17]** being here is I'm not even relevant I have some bills to pay and a family to feed and
**[00:40:24]** he said I where were we going with this conversation Jerry but I'm obsessed with how I feel about
**[00:40:33]** something kind of I start in one direction and I end up someplace else uh we're talking about
**[00:40:49]** symptoms other symptoms in that doctor's opinion it says you know that we drink for the effect
**[00:40:58]** that alcohol produces we drink for the effect if you ever have an opportunity to marry
**[00:41:08]** a sane person try it it has benefits beyond anything I'll never be able to cover all the
**[00:41:16]** benefits that it provides we do things like go into a little wine store because I am in a
**[00:41:22]** magnanimous mood and I'm going to buy my wife a bottle of wine because she likes get this she
**[00:41:29]** likes the taste of it so we go in this little wine store up here in in a little town of Hopkinton
**[00:41:37]** Massachusetts and I'm shopping and there's about 10 or 12,000 bottles of wine in a store I mean
**[00:41:42]** it's absolutely gorgeous uh have you looked at the labels on the bottle of booze lately
**[00:41:48]** their bottles are shaped pretty the labels are nice they just have an attraction to me that
**[00:41:54]** is almost irresistible so we're in this wine store
**[00:41:58]** and I go to a she's scotch uh or Scotty so I'm sorry she's Scotty so so we go along these shelves
**[00:42:14]** and I and I find a medium price wine because if I go to the good stuff she's going to say no
**[00:42:19]** we shouldn't spend that much money so I'm not you know I'm I'm insane but I'm not stupid and so
**[00:42:24]** we go to the uh and she says no I don't I don't think that will work I said why why not she said
**[00:42:31]** well that's that's rosé and I'm looking for something a white wine I said okay so I go find the
**[00:42:37]** white wines and how about this and she says no no it's got kind of a woody taste okay so we look
**[00:42:46]** some more and I find another one I said how about this and she said no no that's kind of dry
**[00:42:54]** and I'm beginning to get my magnanimous spirit is draining away and we tried two or three more of
**[00:43:04]** these and one's not right and this one's not right in the bottom line she says to me why don't we just
**[00:43:10]** go home I ask you one little question have you ever gone into a liquor store and walked out empty
**[00:43:20]** in with the strangest of all reasons because I didn't have anything that tasted good I can remember
**[00:43:37]** choking down hot vodka straight out of bottle after it's been sitting behind a spare tire
**[00:43:45]** in the trunk of the car in july in kansas and saying oh that's good terrible gasoline taste in the
**[00:44:02]** world and we say it's good god that's good point I'm driving out is that normal non-alcoholic
**[00:44:17]** people don't drink for the same reason that we drink I drink for the effect and so this little
**[00:44:24]** just a little short piece of this doctor's opinion begins to have a a depth of meaning to me that I
**[00:44:30]** had I had not experienced before I was led to this part of our little recovery process and I began
**[00:44:39]** to get clear on something about what my truths are because I do I do love the effect produced
**[00:44:46]** by alcohol see I was 27 years old I'll never make it to be a circuit speaker because I didn't
**[00:44:51]** start drinking when I was 16 all circuit speakers start when they're 16 the rest of us start some
**[00:44:59]** other time I started when I was 27 years old I went just for years and years and years went to
**[00:45:05]** a little college went to four years in the Navy only reason I didn't miss ships movement because
**[00:45:11]** I wasn't on a ship but anyway um god Auggie don't do this to me started to drink when I was 27 years
**[00:45:26]** old and you are a dear for reminding me of that started thing had my first drink when I was 27
**[00:45:31]** years old and the most beautiful thing happened my entire life up until that point I had never
**[00:45:41]** belonged or fit I mean I I've been searching now for a number of years about how to describe
**[00:45:48]** that sense of not belonging never fitting wherever I was I didn't fit in my family
**[00:45:54]** uh have you ever awakened on Christmas and watched your whole family have a grand time and you're
**[00:46:00]** just thinking Christmas sucks and you want so desperately to fit in to what they're doing and
**[00:46:09]** you can't I was 27 years old I took a drink of bourbon and coke and I thought this is okay this
**[00:46:22]** a pretty nice evening and then I had another well I learned something and then I was really
**[00:46:33]** for the very first time I was okay I mean I was the most okay I'd ever been and I never saw it after
**[00:46:40]** that to be anything but just okay and I use that word okay very cautiously uh there was just a
**[00:46:47]** sense that always I was different I was different and it just it just changed me so
**[00:46:54]** marvellously and I just there there is no way that I can describe what that first drink did for me
**[00:47:03]** now in that doctor's opinion it also talks about the inability to distinguish between the true and
**[00:47:09]** the faults one of the things that I with a great sense of humor finally just got clear on not
**[00:47:20]** long ago was this little untruth of my life have you ever said to someone hey you want to go
**[00:47:28]** down have a drink I have I've said hey let's stop by so-and-so's and have a drink do you know what
**[00:47:38]** in my entire drinking career I never had a drink never one time from the first time on I've
**[00:47:45]** always had drinks plural but yet my mind told me over and over and over again let's have a drink
**[00:47:57]** and once I have a drink then it's more than that it's just automatic for me and I like to point
**[00:48:05]** out and I use my wife simply because she is number one she's saying and she's cute her now
**[00:48:11]** but the other reason because it's such a great disparity between the way she does things in the way
**[00:48:16]** I do things and it serves to illustrate some of the things that I've learned about my own truth
**[00:48:22]** she can take a little glass of wine and drink sometimes she'll drink all of it not always
**[00:48:30]** and when she gets one time we went into a restaurant and she drank some and she got about halfway
**[00:48:37]** through and I could tell if she was not enjoying it it didn't taste right and so when she was about
**[00:48:45]** and she's about halfway through she pushed it aside and said I just don't care for this
**[00:48:51]** and and the clarity with the fact that I don't have that I don't have that capacity
**[00:48:58]** I mean I don't care if it's watered down lukewarm
**[00:49:04]** don't waste it don't waste it I mean you just don't do that and so the disparity between
**[00:49:17]** what the non-alcoholics is like versus what I'm like began to get cleared
**[00:49:23]** and so we were going through this I began to look at some of these things
**[00:49:28]** and the point I'm really going to come down to is I was having great difficulty with
**[00:49:33]** the fact that people had alerted me to the fact that this is a spiritual program
**[00:49:38]** don't we hear that early on and that scares the heck out of some of us it really does
**[00:49:46]** and I'm thinking about this spiritual element to this whole thing around alcoholism
**[00:49:54]** and that's sharing with me these physical attributes or physical characteristics of the disease
**[00:50:01]** and I began to look at these and finally I came to an ultimate truth and it has served me well now
**[00:50:09]** ever since 10 years ago and that truth was by God you know the way
**[00:50:16]** alcohol reacts on my body is different than it reacts on a lot of people it really it does
**[00:50:25]** I just have a different reaction to it which means that I am physically different now that is
**[00:50:33]** a fact of my life I am physically different from other people from non-alcoholic people
**[00:50:41]** being physically different allowed me then to finally cross that bridge that okay because
**[00:50:47]** here's the idea I resisted I resisted the idea that I am mentally different I have tried to fit
**[00:50:54]** in I have tried to figure out the rules and see what it is that I need to do what is it that
**[00:50:59]** everybody else seems to do so well and I can't do it and it turned out that once I accepted the
**[00:51:07]** fact that I'm physically different then boom I can make that then it becomes only a small step
**[00:51:14]** say well how if I'm physically different why wouldn't have they been only different
**[00:51:18]** so I am you know when I was about three and a half years old my
**[00:51:27]** little neighborhood I lived in this little small southeastern Kansas town was really in the 40s
**[00:51:34]** was a very tame place and so as little kids you could kind of go several blocks away from home
**[00:51:40]** and I was walking not far from home one day about three blocks from where I lived and
**[00:51:46]** there it was springtime and the iris were starting to bloom and these iris were sticking through
**[00:51:52]** this little white fence and I looked at those and I thought you know I'll pick some of those
**[00:52:01]** and so I picked some of these little flowers and I took them all and I gave them one another
**[00:52:05]** and I will never forget this and it's been a long time ago I handed those two and she says
**[00:52:13]** where did you get these and I know from that tone of voice that I'm in deep trouble
**[00:52:23]** my pathological lying started at least then because my response was immediate and swift
**[00:52:32]** I don't know I wasn't real practiced yet now just for the hell of it I will tell you
**[00:52:49]** where I got those flowers at the corner of 10th and Osage in the Otisade Kansas
**[00:52:55]** the man and a woman who lived there were Archie and Effie Bollinger
**[00:52:59]** I know them to this day they've been dead for you because they were old in
**[00:53:04]** I know them I know them well and exactly where I got the flowers but I knew that there was an
**[00:53:08]** inherently where'd you get those flowers I knew that I was in trouble
**[00:53:13]** now let's look at the rest of the pathology there if you want to call it that just for the hell
**[00:53:19]** sounds good what I felt like I could do was steal something take it home for a good reason
**[00:53:29]** give it to somebody they'd think I was a good kid that's what's really going on there if you strip
**[00:53:35]** away all the silliness you're so yeah but that you're only three and a half you know
**[00:53:40]** I had those same thoughts when I was 33 and a half
**[00:53:43]** so there's a pathology I already started that that ability to begin to fabricate
**[00:53:57]** my own truth based upon what I intended it to be
**[00:54:02]** so there's that little mental twist that I experience
**[00:54:07]** 13 years sober and I was telling you about sense standing in this 30 second floor of the
**[00:54:12]** embassy suites there was a reason for sharing that and it's not just for the drama here's
**[00:54:18]** here's the thing that concerns me from time to time I thought I was alcoholic and severely
**[00:54:26]** depressed I did not know that you can be alcoholic and as a part of the untreated alcoholism
**[00:54:37]** have a lot of complex problems and suffer a great deal of depression I didn't know you could do
**[00:54:42]** that I thought it was a separate deal but that's not what the doctor says he says his
**[00:54:48]** alcoholic problem was so complex and his depression so great that may be a part of the
**[00:54:56]** disease is what the doctor saying in fact he goes a little stronger than he's saying that is
**[00:55:01]** part of the disease now the good news to all this I'll tell you is I think there are times
**[00:55:08]** once in a while when I'm depressed but I'm kind of like my brother now these days so what
**[00:55:18]** now I don't know I know that I know we have some smokers in this in this crowd
**[00:55:24]** I went to a doctor here about a year and a half ago and he he said the howler you know I said 58
**[00:55:29]** he said you might want to consider a quick smoking and I thought oh god can't do that and he said
**[00:55:36]** well I said I can give you some medication for it and I said why would I want to take medication
**[00:55:40]** we said that will make it a little easier and I said well tell me the nature of the medication
**[00:55:44]** so he told me about it and I said well what does that do he said it acts as a mild antidepressant
**[00:55:49]** I said why do I need a mild antidepressant we said what do you think the cigarettes are done
**[00:55:57]** I thought Elkins you hypocrite here you are you're telling people that you're doing this thing and
**[00:56:04]** without medication for your depression and you're sucking down 40 little antidepressant each day
**[00:56:13]** having to be called Marlboro Reds well I'll tell you what as you grow along this path there's
**[00:56:21]** some things you can't do anymore now don't get me wrong I didn't go home and immediately lay them
**[00:56:25]** down and say okay bye god I'm done I don't have any more power today than I had when I got here
**[00:56:32]** what I had to do is had to ask for some willingness
**[00:56:35]** I have a sponsor and he had gone through this many many many years ago he had never one time
**[00:56:42]** criticized me for my continuing smoking we were setting at breakfast one time just about a month
**[00:56:47]** before all this occurred and I was listening to him and he was talking about he had to pray for
**[00:56:52]** the strength to quit smoking and so I'm sitting there when all this has finally come to me and I'm
**[00:56:59]** thinking you know I'm a prayer I thought you know god there's no point in asking for the strength
**[00:57:05]** there just really isn't any point because I don't even have the willingness I had asked for
**[00:57:12]** willingness to quit now I'm an out-key so I will still try to make deals
**[00:57:23]** I said I'm asking for the willingness to provide it you don't have to give me lung cancer
**[00:57:31]** or or emphysema for me to quit just this is a little willing this is all I'm looking for
**[00:57:37]** I got terribly sick got the worst case the flu I've ever had was in bed for three days when I got
**[00:57:43]** up I thought there's no point picking up a cigarette again some fun stuff along the way it really is
**[00:57:50]** fun but it starts with getting clear on what what is my truth and so I'll leave you with this
**[00:57:58]** little thought now let's see what Donna wants to ask as I went through this doctor's opinion
**[00:58:05]** there are just so many nifty little things to help me understand what I really am is an
**[00:58:11]** alcoholic I have some other things that make it look like I might suffer some other things but
**[00:58:17]** those other things seem to diminish or they hold no power over me now do I still suffer from
**[00:58:25]** or you know emotional extremes I don't suffer from them I have them
**[00:58:35]** my mind can still come fully awake at 2 30 in the morning thinking the best thing I could do is
**[00:58:40]** put the gun up here and pull a trigger my mind will do that to me don't be afraid of that
**[00:58:47]** the reason I say don't be afraid of it is the spirit is now in charge
**[00:58:53]** and I don't have the power to do some of the things my alcoholic mind throws out of suggestions
**[00:59:00]** see how's the other thing I one of the reasons that I enjoy you all so much when you allow us to
**[00:59:05]** come and do this as I thought my alcoholic mind was going to be taking completely away
**[00:59:13]** and I didn't happen I have the alcoholic mind over here just not much power left it in it anymore
**[00:59:18]** there's some and then I have my new mind and I can go over here to my alcoholic mind from time to
**[00:59:26]** time just for the hell of it just to see what's going on and explore it all you do things like
**[00:59:33]** I wonder if I'm really alcoholic I don't have to do this stuff and I went to my sponsor one time
**[00:59:45]** few years back and actually not a moment just a few about 10 years ago my first time through
**[00:59:50]** the book um through the process and and I said you know I go to a lot of AA meetings
**[01:00:01]** and I was trying to write a four step inventory that's where I was in this little process I
**[01:00:05]** said I go to a lot of AA meetings and he said yeah and I said well listen there's a lot of people
**[01:00:12]** who don't have to do this and what I was saying in such a subtle little way was why are you making
**[01:00:18]** me do it I understand I've asked him to help me he hadn't come to me and said I want to help you
**[01:00:26]** I had asked him if he would help me and I said I just there's a lot of people who they don't have to
**[01:00:31]** do this he looked at me and he said well do you want what to have and I said no I don't he said
**[01:00:41]** they must not worry about what they do and we put that deal to bed one other time I was in a
**[01:00:51]** particular inventory and it came time for me to resolve them in and I said I think what I'll do
**[01:00:57]** in this particular instance I think I'll leave the country it's a good way to make an amendment
**[01:01:03]** it's probably people that would have made happy anyway he uh I said I think I just don't leave
**[01:01:09]** the country he said that's not what we do and I'm the good alcoholic that I am a spiritual giant
**[01:01:16]** that I'm growing into I said well then what is it we do many of us have recovered
**[01:01:28]** some of us are still only growing there are no experts up here just two old guys who have
**[01:01:36]** grown into some dear friends having a grand time with this thing called a spiritual life
**[01:01:43]** recovering from alcoholism and getting to share it with you all see I I want you all to find
**[01:01:50]** whatever you're looking for and I want you to find it so badly and I have a hunt that if you'll
**[01:01:56]** try this you will find it and I can't force you into it I can't get you there sooner I mean I just
**[01:02:04]** but I want you to have it but that gives me a purpose isn't it perfect I get to lay it on to you
**[01:02:10]** if you want it you can have it if you don't well we'll go drink orange juice we'll have a grand
**[01:02:16]** time can we eat any time we'll get ready to bark well it's 11 15 I'm just we don't have to wait
**[01:02:29]** until the magic noon number good all right on page 11 of Bill's story in the second edition big
**[01:02:47]** where I'm headed is it we really hope that we can have an actual experience out of this weekend
**[01:02:54]** this is not an exchange of knowledge and opinions and all that we'll do a lot of that but
**[01:03:03]** I'm trying to get us to where we can have a third step experience together then we can show
**[01:03:07]** you what that means to us and what we do following that based on this I'd come to believe that
**[01:03:21]** sanity was possible meaning that there could be proportion
**[01:03:25]** and I could learn to think straight proportion in my thinking and in my emotions
**[01:03:32]** everything's out of proportion when it's out of proportion when I'm selfish there's never enough
**[01:03:38]** that's the bottom line there's never enough anger so I generate more there's never enough love
**[01:03:46]** there's never enough appreciation there's never enough of anything there's never enough
**[01:03:51]** booze it's just never enough that's not saying sanity says I'm living in the midst of an abundance
**[01:04:03]** and if I don't start giving it away quickly it's going to fill a room up where you ain't room to move
**[01:04:09]** you know me in my mind and my heart based on his own spiritual awakening
**[01:04:21]** every Thatcher went to see his old friend Bill Wilson knowing full well that Bill was dying
**[01:04:31]** and I suggest to you as I read this I become aware of the fact that at the time everybody's
**[01:04:37]** talking to Bill Bill is drunk and getting drunker to the point where they have to take him to a
**[01:04:45]** hospital when they're through because he's ready to go into dt's he's been drinking all day and
**[01:04:51]** all night for several weeks he's counted the amount of booze it's going to take him to get through
**[01:04:56]** the night which appears to be about a court I notice how much it's going to take him when he's
**[01:05:03]** awake this is why sleeping it's going to take you to court man it's not in good shape he's drunk
**[01:05:11]** I need to remember that as I work with others you do not have to be sober to have a spiritual
**[01:05:17]** awakening if I'm the kind of sponsor that waits for that I may kill you I contend that if you
**[01:05:27]** got this far drunk or sober you're already spiritually awake this isn't about a method to
**[01:05:35]** awaken you spiritually it's about a method to make you conscious of the fact that you're already
**[01:05:41]** spiritually awake if I'm incapable of being honest with myself in my self-centered state
**[01:05:52]** this is going to be a lick of good I've already had a change I truly believe for me
**[01:06:00]** that the most demonstrable visible tangible sign of the presence of God is willingness
**[01:06:11]** there is so much power in willingness that the very nanoseconds that I become willing to change
**[01:06:18]** I have already changed I've changed from being unwilling to being willing that's a lot of power
**[01:06:26]** I can bring that to in fact it tells me here that that power that particular demonstration
**[01:06:32]** of power is indispensable I must have that there's a number of places along the path
**[01:06:37]** where without that a muscle just going out and drank or go to a movie or something because this
**[01:06:42]** won't mean anything Ebby just kept talking with Bill the only thing he didn't do was accept
**[01:06:51]** a drink from Bill which didn't bother Bill a whole lot he had more for himself anyway he was
**[01:06:58]** a little surprised because he knew Ebby was a drinker like he was and Ebby just kept presenting
**[01:07:05]** himself from the path he had found and and Bill saw this I contend that he must have been awake
**[01:07:13]** to see this you don't see this when you're asleep I saw that my friend was much more than
**[01:07:18]** inwardly reorganized he was on a different footing his roots grasped new soil that's what I needed
**[01:07:26]** here I've got to be a new person I cannot be the same person in 1966 my two boys and I were on the
**[01:07:40]** road I had tried to be Superman I want to work for security benefit life out in Topeka on a
**[01:07:50]** debit you don't know what a debit is that's where the salesman comes around you got a five-hour
**[01:07:54]** premium he collects it every month because he doesn't come out and collected he probably won't
**[01:07:58]** get paid small premium insurance and it was either 800,000 in seven months or 700,000 in eight
**[01:08:08]** months of new premium I sold on that debit because I didn't know you couldn't do that I just
**[01:08:14]** did it I'd have been in the millionaires club my first year in the business I didn't know what that
**[01:08:21]** was then it didn't matter I just and then I had to quit that job because I hadn't learned yet that
**[01:08:30]** the money that I was collecting wasn't mine until it went through their books I'd have to take my
**[01:08:37]** paycheck to make the books balanced which left us short and then I had to take the premiums and
**[01:08:43]** pay the bills and as soon as the check got you know I was getting tiresome went to Kansas City
**[01:08:52]** and went to work for an IBM training school and three months I was sales manager and within six
**[01:08:59]** months my wife and children were gone I drank a little that didn't why she left it doesn't matter
**[01:09:09]** why she left a month later the boys came into my custody and I was no longer able to be
**[01:09:18]** superman I was unable to be that so we hit the road anyway along that road which was a difficult
**[01:09:30]** and highly dramatic road I was restless irritable discontent we moved every 30 days at least because
**[01:09:39]** I'd smell the red cross and social services coming my way and late hit town at least that's what I
**[01:09:44]** thought I got in with a really interesting group of artists with small blue dope which had a lot of
**[01:09:57]** speed got hooked up with Alsey Stanley and got into the finest acid in the world I'm not a drug addict
**[01:10:06]** well I'm not just taking drugs as a mechanic I always had a choice for the drugs I could start
**[01:10:12]** or stop if moderated or whatever that was not an obsession I just liked it but I could quit
**[01:10:21]** anyway in the midst of all this the real drama was the pain inside that was driving me on out
**[01:10:30]** trying to find a place to live trying to find home for these kids couldn't do it
**[01:10:43]** uh in 1966 we got hooked up with some Indian folks and the peyote people nice people got
**[01:10:52]** hooked up with some really good marijuana sources out of Guatemala and that's what get the best
**[01:11:02]** prices are really high then at around about two hundred dollars a kilo
**[01:11:12]** and in the midst of all that I got a call from Alba Kirkley only Albert called me from Alba
**[01:11:21]** Kirkley this is we got a problem we just picked up 30 keys down deep Mexico we got it as far as
**[01:11:30]** whereas and our driver got busted on some pickle-ass little deal and he's in jail and the stuff's in
**[01:11:36]** the hotel room waiting for somebody to go and get it you want the job and I said sure Albert
**[01:11:44]** I got these two little boys with me once four one six sure Albert I don't know good
**[01:11:52]** and looking back on that I can define I used to wonder why do they think I'm an associate path
**[01:11:58]** why do they think I might be a psychopath I got these two little boys it's natural to go
**[01:12:04]** into war as and pick up an illicit load of marijuana and bring it back why not I didn't do it for money
**[01:12:11]** my price was two kilos which at that time was four hundred dollars there's nothing
**[01:12:17]** chump change I did it for prestige I did it for self-esteem I'm the only one in a whole
**[01:12:25]** United States that they thought of calling who had what it took I had no problem with insanity
**[01:12:45]** now again I'm not an idiot what I found out later is that they called me because somebody said
**[01:12:49]** Albert called Prince he's crazy he'll do it they knew so we got a VW bus I had them run a VW bus
**[01:12:59]** I've got a good mind I worked out the dimensions of 30 kilos that's perfectly into a single bit
**[01:13:06]** air mattress well the kids and I got into war as I made them get it out of the hotel that was
**[01:13:13]** the only danger spot that I could see open up that air mattress and stuff the 30 keys in there
**[01:13:21]** and resealed it but dirty diapers on top of that and then put my kids on top of that
**[01:13:27]** so the one we hit the border crossing just before we hit it I turned around and screamed at the
**[01:13:34]** children so they'd be crying because they don't mess with you I got to be a different person
**[01:13:53]** it is not possible for me to live with the kind of motivation and the kind of thinking that allows
**[01:13:58]** that because my children were not in any physical danger had we gotten busted they'd have been
**[01:14:05]** taken to a foster home which is far better than they were made what I did to harm my children
**[01:14:13]** is it right out of nowhere they're only linked with life the only person who really loved them
**[01:14:20]** screamed at them for no reason at all for self-centered purposes I cannot be that ever again
**[01:14:31]** I've got to be different and there's the promise I can be get my roots into a new soil
**[01:14:38]** it's incomprehensible for me to even think but I could ever do that again because I couldn't
**[01:14:46]** but if you have come see me I can show you how to make the change so you don't have to do that
**[01:14:59]** that's surprising not just not cracking and we've all done something stupid like that in one way or another
**[01:15:10]** do you ever steal from the kids piggy bank do you ever get caught I got caught
**[01:15:20]** and stood there and lied to him about it and then wonder in later years why don't you trust me
**[01:15:25]** I got the damn piggy bank I'm busted no not me why don't you trust me different footing
**[01:15:42]** despite the living example of my friend that remained in me the veggie vestiges of my own
**[01:15:47]** prejudice of course just because I see it happening for you I gotta get past
**[01:15:52]** yeah but you're different but I'm different I don't deserve it or see I had done the one
**[01:16:01]** thing I'd been taught growing up it was unforgivable I'd killed myself someone along the way told me
**[01:16:08]** that God won't forgive that one if you've been told that it's a lie trash it it's just my
**[01:16:21]** personal experience if I hadn't been forgiven there is no such thing so Bill's fighting with his
**[01:16:31]** conceptions of God or actually his concepts of God and I point out to you the difference in the
**[01:16:37]** words we do things with words so I'm a word mechanic a concept of God is a rigid boxed in
**[01:16:47]** structured no room to move idea this is the way it is there's death in that
**[01:16:55]** and this doesn't talk about having a concept of God every said to Bill why don't you choose
**[01:17:00]** your own conception of God the conception is kind of a loose idea it's got room to move about
**[01:17:07]** and be added to and discarded from it and that may sound like a petty point but in my kind of
**[01:17:13]** mind that's important so I have to it affects the way I do things because it means I have to spend
**[01:17:23]** much more time learning how to describe than to define anytime I can define for you I have
**[01:17:32]** just limited whatever I just defined for you in for me I don't want that kind of mind anymore
**[01:17:44]** I've been to the first day before the first day of creation and all these assets will do that for
**[01:17:50]** you put that on a resume someday you think that's important what did you do last year went to the
**[01:18:01]** first day before the first day of creation higher hand let's just what we're looking for
**[01:18:09]** putting up in the VP's office we can really use that kind of thing
**[01:18:18]** that statement hit me hard Bill says and he's drunk he's been drinking all night he's been
**[01:18:25]** drinking all day with Ebby he's drunk when he hears why don't you choose your own conception
**[01:18:31]** and he says that statement hit me hard it melted the icy intellectual mountain and
**[01:18:35]** whose shadow I had lived and shivered for many years I stood in the sunlight at last it sounds to
**[01:18:41]** me like a spiritual awakening you don't want to describe there's one what I want it looks like
**[01:18:48]** I stood in the sunlight the icy intellectual mountain was melted that cold cold I see cold
**[01:18:55]** mind that I had got melted and then became open it sounds like a spiritual awakening to me it was
**[01:19:05]** only a matter of being willing to believe in a power greater myself not even believing just being
**[01:19:10]** willing to believe that's for the power yes nothing more was required of me to make my
**[01:19:15]** beginning if anybody in this room is having difficulty with that that's really all it takes
**[01:19:21]** just a willingness to believe our old timers used to say try it for a while if you don't like it
**[01:19:31]** we'll refund your misery on the way out the door and you can take mine with you it's stacked over
**[01:19:36]** in the corner I saw the growth could start from that point from the willingness to believe
**[01:19:46]** all of my experience in life sober has been based on willingness that is the foundation it's all
**[01:19:54]** I brought here it's all I have today if I lose that I will stop growing I am willing to not know
**[01:20:01]** anything so that I can learn the more I know the less I can learn so I just soon know nothing
**[01:20:11]** it's easier and everything becomes interesting scary but interesting anyway you all kind of hungry
**[01:20:25]** these guys have put together the ugliest sandwich I've ever seen in my life
**[01:20:32]** it's big enough for the whole crowd with seconds even and if that's what what time would you like
**[01:20:38]** to get back together it's 11 30 now one o'clock 12 12 31 what do I hear let's see the hands for
**[01:20:55]** 12 30 let's see the hands for one o'clock what does it want it for 30 I heard one
**[01:21:09]** I would say that the 12 30 was represented the majority would I would to yeah 12 30 okay
**[01:21:16]** that gives us an hour and we'll be a little late we may be we may be in a little trouble here this
**[01:21:25]** afternoon I was sitting over here pondering where to start this afternoon session and I don't
**[01:21:33]** know how it is no big deal I just follow Prince and I walk over there and he talked to me and we
**[01:21:39]** got all through and so so what do you want to do and he said well I'll just follow you so
**[01:21:44]** so we're all in trouble here I too a little bit of a wordsmith simply because
**[01:21:59]** my alcoholic mind has a tendency to read into words meanings that aren't there
**[01:22:08]** well you can tell me that this is simple but not easy and what I really hear is if it's simple
**[01:22:14]** it should be easy I hear that and it's just you know and so when it gets hard I want to quit
**[01:22:24]** I'm always going to quit if it gets hard but the word I want to talk about just briefly as
**[01:22:30]** we pick back up and move forward just a little bit is Bill was talking about the willingness
**[01:22:38]** to believe in a power greater than myself a willingness to believe and one of my great
**[01:22:45]** difficulties with all of this was I thought if I were willing that man I had to want it
**[01:22:52]** and doesn't are you willing and that's the deal are you willing I don't care if you want it or not
**[01:23:05]** one time I I was contemplating where this little process might take me if I got into that
**[01:23:12]** third step really and in sincere and complete and total surrender I thought well god if I give
**[01:23:19]** my life to god I mean no telling what he may have me do and then I got clear I I knew what he was
**[01:23:25]** going to have me do he was going to make me a missionary down in for a down in Mexico I told
**[01:23:31]** this story a couple of years ago here it got me a sombrero so I'll tell it again but I gave you
**[01:23:39]** the short version the bottom line was I got clear that if I do this thing God's going to send
**[01:23:43]** me to Mexico and I'm going to carry the message of Alcoholics Anonymous to just an all male
**[01:23:47]** group never get to be close to a woman again blah blah blah I have no money
**[01:23:56]** and I thought I am not willing to do that and the deal was that I didn't want to do that
**[01:24:03]** and took me about four days in a lot of prayer to finally get clear on the fact that
**[01:24:09]** am I willing to do this I don't care if I want it or not see I don't have the character I used
**[01:24:16]** here the old-timer talk about this deal is about building character you ever hear that
**[01:24:21]** then I just send chills up your spine when people talk about building character I don't want to
**[01:24:27]** build character not in my nature to want to do something like that because it sounds like work
**[01:24:37]** willing to believe in a power greater than myself tell you what this little deal of ours is real
**[01:24:44]** nifty in this sense you can fight and resist this as long as you wish there will come a point in time
**[01:24:53]** Don mentioned it in his own words your coper is broken for me I did I don't have anything I'm
**[01:25:01]** beaten and when I'm beaten I will give up and I will no longer wrestle with this deal
**[01:25:07]** about my conception of God either he is or he is now it's just going to be that simple
**[01:25:12]** and and you'll get there if you're a real alcoholic you'll get there we talked this morning about
**[01:25:23]** how much we had to drink over our lifetime did anybody start out drinking a quart
**[01:25:30]** no we don't and well wait a minute wait a minute there's always one
**[01:25:38]** she says yeah I did I hate to ask you what did you end up in the in quantity wise and per day
**[01:25:48]** he started off drinking a quart where did how much did you drink at the tail end
**[01:25:56]** five to six words okay points still being the same is that it takes more medication for our
**[01:26:02]** disease because our disease is progressive in nature isn't it willing to believe that a power
**[01:26:10]** greater myself can restore my sanity and when it got clear to me was when it finally gone on me
**[01:26:17]** that no matter how hard I try to do this thing I cannot do it and why I resisted that idea for
**[01:26:26]** so long I don't know the truth matters I can't do the right thing it's not in me to do the right
**[01:26:32]** thing I have no discipline I'd like to say that I'm a real spiritual discipline giant
**[01:26:39]** I mean it sounds so good but I'm not I'm just a weaver the lackey who will not do this
**[01:26:46]** if god does not give me the strength of character to keep moving forward
**[01:26:53]** so everything good in my life has come as a result of this and the power flowing into my life
**[01:27:00]** and then on back out to whoever I can get to stand still so I can talk about it
**[01:27:04]** you see I again there's nothing noble about me being here I'd like I'd love for you to think I'm
**[01:27:12]** noble but the real truth matters this is just what I do it's what I am nothing more than anything
**[01:27:19]** less just what I am but there's a marvelous sense that comes with that and that is out of all the
**[01:27:29]** insanity that's appeared in my life there's now something useful and I say to each of you out there
**[01:27:36]** no matter what your experiences has been a few months ago I was with a young man in Maine and
**[01:27:42]** he was 21 years old and he said I said well Charlie tell me what's your story he said oh I said I'm
**[01:27:48]** not gonna bore you with my story I said why not Charlie and he said well he said you guys you
**[01:27:53]** you've really been around he blah blah blah blah talking about how big our stories and how
**[01:27:58]** dramatic our stories sound I said well Charlie we got two hours to drive from Fort London up to
**[01:28:03]** the middle of Maine uh what's your deal tell me about it anyway bore me and so Charlie told me
**[01:28:12]** his story and by the time he was 15 he was in serious trouble but time he's 18 he was in jail
**[01:28:18]** but time he's in 21 he was in serious serious jail uh prison trouble his story was absolutely
**[01:28:26]** fascinating and his recovery process absolutely amazing and he had me totally captured a totally
**[01:28:36]** audience all the way from Portland up to the center part of the Maine so whatever your
**[01:28:41]** experience has been let me share with you it's valuable it's valuable we talked early on in this
**[01:28:48]** session you need to be armed with the facts about ourselves see I want to be armed with what I
**[01:28:56]** intended to do the truth matters I'm powerless to do what I intend to do and I really would like
**[01:29:05]** to do better but I can't so it all comes back am I willing to believe that there is a power greater
**[01:29:15]** than me if I'm willing to do that I'm really placing myself in a position to begin to think
**[01:29:24]** about a total and complete surrender now I it's easy for me and I think it's probably not that
**[01:29:32]** difficult for anybody else to do kind of a little bit of a check and ask yourself
**[01:29:42]** where did I get to when I was running the show where did I get to when I was running the show
**[01:29:49]** I didn't get any place either and see I was 27 years old and I was president of a financial
**[01:29:56]** institution in Kansas and at that time I was the youngest president of any financial institution
**[01:30:02]** in Kansas I was really on the way eight years later Kansas Bureau of Investigation and
**[01:30:10]** Judge and a couple of lawyers and a good doctor we're all sitting around saying what are we going
**[01:30:14]** to do with this boy which was a familiar topic and people sitting around in meetings since I was
**[01:30:24]** about five saying what are we going to do with this boy I'm never real bad I am just just enough
**[01:30:33]** I'm just not all upset